Episode 23: Steven Arnold

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Hopefully many of you have listened to the podcast featuring the esteemed holistic Montessori inspired educator Phi Gang for way back in March, 2018. Phil spent many years working in New Zealand. Well, Phil wrote to me the other day with a present. His friend and colleague from New Zealand, Steven Arnold was coming to Portland and did I want to do a podcast with him?

Steven has created the Peace Experiment, one of the most innovative high school opportunities for teen agers in the world. His infectious enthusiasm, his commitment to Montessori ideals without being constrained by formula or history, and his love of adolescents created an atmosphere and delight as talked.

Steven Arnold has received many awards and accolades. You can read all about it his many achievements in the Shownotes on the website www.Remarkable-Educators.com . For now, enjoy and learn from this Remarkable Educator.


Steven is a Montessori trained teacher 0 - 3 (cert); 3 - 6; 6 - 12, 12 - 15, & 15 - 18yr olds (Diplomas); MEd; Dip Tchng (NZ), BA, BSc, PGDipED, LTCL, LSB, ASB, ANZDA (Accred); SCA (Accred).

He is a teacher trainer, principal, teacher, consultant, guest speaker, parent, board and trustee member. With overseas experience in England, Brunei and Australia, he has taught all levels of education from primary to tertiary.

Steven established New Zealand's first Montessori Secondary School in 2002, then principal at Brisbane Montessori School, and has recently been the Senior Lecturer in Montessori Education at AUT University.

Peace Experiment is the only independent Montessori Secondary Education provider in New Zealand.



Episode 22: Marcia Osoke

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Marcia Osoke is a natural teacher in every sense of the word. She is born to teach; she loves nature. Education is critical; and nature is the best teacher. How to combine them? How to successfully actualize her passions? How to gain public support to do so? Rising to the challenge Marcia and her colleagues created the John Muir Outdoor Charter School in Ashland, OR. 

Getting children outside to learn directly through interactions with nature brings forth a strong sense of place and belongingness. But Marcia doesn’t stop there. She knows that connection with nature leads to profound appreciation of interconnectedness of all life and all people. More compassionate approach to conflicts and greater academic achievement have resulted in the Oregon Department of Education designating the school “Outstanding” every year since 2012.


Episode 21: John Creger

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When John Creger met his first class of sophomores at American High School in Fremont CA, he had an intuition to give these sophomores what his own high school education had failed to give him: a sense of who he was. That first year  John introduced an experiment he calls the Personal Creed Project. For nearly three decades students have described their experience with the Creed Project and John’s course in thought-provoking terms

John’s classroom research has centered on explaining the widespread, continuing enthusiasm for the project from high school and college classrooms across the country. What he has learned has altered his fundamental understanding of the nature of learning. John has come to regard self-knowledge as the missing region of curriculum—and the missing ingredient we all need if we are to engage more deeply in learning.

John has made over 60 presentations at professional gatherings around the country. In 2015, he launched Thriving at the Core Presentations to share his deepened literacy approach with colleagues in their own districts. In his trainings, colleagues have their own encounter with the Personal Creed Project and learn to redesign and teach their own courses to weave students’ self-discovery alongside their academic learning. In recognition of the Personal Creed Project, the National Council of Teachers of English presented John the James Moffett Memorial Award for Teacher Research.

John’s articles have appeared in California English (2002), Urantia Fellowship Herald (2012), NCTE’s Journal of the Assembly for Expanded Perspectives on Learning (2015) and The Center for Partnership Studies Newsletter(August 2018). His first book is The Personal Creed Project and a New Vision of Learning (Heinemann 2004).


John lives with his wife of 30 years in Berkeley CA. Beyond the classroom and his presentations, he enjoys traveling with his wife and two daughters. He composes on the guitar, performs with his jazz trio, and reads and writes about life and learning. He has no immediate plans to retire and leave his sophomores behind.

Episode 20: Ba Luvmour


I, your host Ba Luvmour, am the speaker on the podcast.

With my passion increasing as I engage the 7th decade of my life I am ever more convinced of the critical importance of Holistic Education. And I am convinced of the greatness of the holistic developmental understanding that Josette and I pioneered, articulated, and put into practice more than 30 years ago.

Also, I want you to know more about me, the host of the podcast. I come with a rich history of experience and expertise. Connection with my background will make each podcast more meaningful. I am not an interviewer asking questions as much as I am a colleague engaging in considered dialogue.

We, the team at Meetings with Remarkable Educators, see the need to make some formatting changes. In this podcast I specify the changes and the reasons for them.


As an educator, public speaker, author, seminar leader, and consultant Ba has worked in just about every phase of life with children and families. He enjoys training educators (including administrators) and teaching as faculty in graduate school.

Ba has been a non-profit executive since the beginning of his career and co-founded three schools and a holistic learning center for families and children. He is currently podcast host in the popular series, Meetings with Remarkable Educators.

The foundation for all his work in is an abiding inquiry into the nature of consciousness. This has led him to engage science from physics to brain research, philosophy, meditation practice, and all branches of psychology, education, anthropology, and all contiguous subjects. Ba has authored five eBooks and six print books.


  • https://luvmourconsulting.com/natural-learning-relationships/

  • https://www.amazon.com/Ba-Luvmour/e/B001K8E2E6/ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_2?qid=1503934244&sr=8-2

  • https://selfdesigninstitute.org/ba-luvmour/

Click here for a transcript of the podcast

Episode 19: Renee Owen and West Willmore

Renee Owen


Renee Owen’s life mission is to bring wellbeing and harmony into education. This is her twelfth year as executive director at Rainbow Community School, a holistic private school in Asheville, NC, that spans preschool through eighth grade. She is also a founder of Rainbow Institute, an adult learning arm of Rainbow Community School, which hosts the More Than Mindfulness Conference each October. Renee Owen is a doctoral candidate at Columbia University Teachers College in an Adult Learning and Leadership program based on transformative learning. Her forthcoming dissertation is about the experience of K12 teachers who imbed spiritual development within their teaching practices.

West Wilmore

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West has served many roles at Rainbow over the years. From lead teacher of second and third and multiage classrooms, to the professional development coordinator and mentor teacher and now as Rainbow Community School’s curriculum coordinator and development director and Rainbow Institute’s Director of Operations. As a lifelong learner, these varied opportunities have yielded much personal and professional growth, increased enthusiasm and connection to Rainbow’s unique model and philosophy as well as continual interest and motivation to support Rainbow’s growth.

West also brings with her a decade of teaching natural sciences and environmental education to children of all ages. West first became interested in teaching while working with children in environmental education centers and camps. Her own love of the natural world and her joy in sharing this world with children inspired her to pursue a teaching career that used “nature’s theater” as a primary learning environment. Much of West’s own education took place in nature’s classroom where she studied the unique ecosystems of the Appalachian region and the southeastern Barrier Islands, the western United States, and New Zealand.

West’s educational philosophy is anchored in place based and experiential learning. She works to nurture a love of learning by fostering in students deep connections to themselves, their community, and the natural world around them. She strongly believes that direct, authentic and meaningful experience is the primary stepping stone to understanding.

West holds a Bachelors Degree in Natural Resources and Environmental Studies from the University of the South, a Graduate Certificate in Environmental Education from the Teton Science Schools, a Master’s of Education from Montana State University, a school administration license from Appalachian State University, and a graduate certificate in non-profit management from Duke University. She also won WNC’s Best of the Best Teacher – 2nd place in 2012 and 1st place in 2013!

West is also an avid rock climber and travels nationally and internationally with her dog, Willow to climb. West is also a competitive bodybuilder and loves to trail run, cycle, paddle board and backpack.


  • http://rainbowcommunityschool.org/more-than-mindfulness-conference/
  • http://rainbowcommunityschool.org/heart-of-the-matter/
  • http://rainbowcommunityschool.org/news/rainbow-institute-blog/

Episode 18: Pete Young


It is a goal of this podcast to extend understanding of Holistic Education beyond schools—holistic, alternative, homeschooling, or others. To that end our podcast today centers on a remarkable organization dedicated to Rites of Passage, a great and mostly ignored holistic learning opportunity. Pete Young is the designer of the Raven weekend, a Rite of Passage for children between 9 and 12. In existence for 10 years, Pete has recently pioneered a coed Rite of Passage using the Raven format. It is, to our knowledge, the first intensive coed Rite of Passage.

Pete has travelled an unusual path to becoming one of the most creative leaders in the field. Of course it starts and is continually nourished by Pete’s intense desire for self-knowledge and the awakening of consciousness. The led to two critical engagements—the Mankind project and Natural Learning Relationships. Mankind put Pete in touch with coming-of-age Rites of Passage for young men as well as a community dedicated to self-growth. Natural Learning Relationships gave Pete the understanding of how children organize their world and the structure and dynamics of Rites of Passage.

There are those people who engage Natural Learning Relationships and just get it. The appreciation of a child’s consciousness—of how they see and organize their world—clicks with their intuitive and experiential knowledge of themselves and the children in their lives. Often they become Natural Learning Relationships enthusiasts and apply it in their homes, life and schools. Pete became a Natural Learning Relationships enthusiast.

He applied it to his family and saw excellent results. He facillitated Rites of Passage for male teens with the Mankind project and saw the many ways Natural Learning Relationships accurately described how teens organize their world. And then he created the Raven Training, a Rite of Passage for males, at first, and then for males and females together under the umbrella organization Alliance of Generations. Pete added follow up meetings so that the learning of the Raven weekend could grow in all participants.

If that was all Pete did he should be celebrated near and far. But Pete became a leader in Restorative Justice in his home county and regularly works with adjudicated youth in the Oregon penal system.

Pete Young lives holistic insight and practice. That he brings to diverse venues is simply an extension of his life and practice.


Episode 17: Peter Berg

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The author of The Tao of Teenagers : A Guide to Teen Health, Happiness & Empowerment and the founder of YouthTransformations.com and Education Transformation, is a board certified holistic health and mental health coach, a teacher, educational administrator, community organizer, educational consultant, school developer, national trainer and an expert in and an advocate for alternative and integrated education. He has written extensively on alternative, holistic, integrated educational theory and techniques and has founded and co-founded non-profit community and environmental-based organizations.

Peter received his Master’s Degree in Environmental Studies and Education from Antioch University and his Doctorate in Education at Walden University, exploring the ties between school leadership and progressive and holistic education.

Peter maintains partnerships and affiliations with organizations who promote sustainability, social and environmental justice, human rights and holistic health. Often this work entails bringing these organizations together to form partnerships and exchange ideas. Peter has consulted on various start-up schools throughout the country and continues to offer consultations to national and international organizations, schools and individuals.


Episode 16: Debbie Millon

Debbie is head of Wingra School, whose mission is educating the whole child since 1972. Before joining Wingra in 2016, Debbie was the Head of School for 9 years at the Bellwether School, a holistic elementary school in Vermont.

In the late 1990s, she served as the director of the PlayCare Center, a play-based preschool that celebrated children’s sense of wonder and curiosity. While working at the Mathematical Association of America in Washington, DC, Debbie collaborated with university professors to define novel teaching methods to strengthen mathematics achievement in minority high school students.  She also worked in the field of biomechanics, designing prosthetics for children and studying Tai Chi gait in young and elderly adults.

Debbie is committed to using very simple human “technologies”—like listening, speaking from the heart, slowing down, breathing, and connecting to nature—in order to support authentic relationships, a deeper sense of self, an essential shift in consciousness, and aligned living practices. She enjoys exploring new ways to empower and inspire students and adults to gain awareness of themselves, others, and the world around them. Her guiding question: How do we create the conditions for everyone in our community to know that they belong, they matter, they are seen, and their perspectives and gifts are valued?

In this Podcast:

  • The opportunities and challenges as Head of a successful holistic school
  • Developing and sustaining an emergent, whole child curriculum
  • Staff relationships in holistic school
  • Parent relationships in a holistic school

Debbie's profile at Wingra School

Episode 15: Theodore Richards

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Theodore Richards is a philosopher, poet, and novelist. As the founder of The Chicago Wisdom Project, editor of the online magazine Re-imagining: Education, Culture, World, and a board member of Homebound Publications, his work is dedicated to re-imagining education and creating new narratives about our place in the world. He has received degrees from various institutions, including the University of Chicago and The California Institute of Integral Studies, but has learned just as much studying the martial art of Bagua; teaching in various settings and students; and as a traveler from the Far East to the Middle East, from southern Africa to the South Pacific. He is the author of seven books and numerous literary awards, including two Nautilus Book Awards and two Independent Publisher Awards. His most recent book is The Great Re-imagining: Spirituality in an Age of Apocalypse, a Forward Reviews Book of the Year finalist and Nautilus Book Award winner. His next book, A Letter to My Daughters: Remembering the Lost Dimension & the Texture of Life, is slated for release in Fall 2018. He lives in Chicago with his wife and daughters.

You can find out more about Theodore by visiting the show notes at Remarkable-Educators.com, and by joining us at Patreon.com/Remarkable Educators as Theodore will be featured in an upcoming newsletter, one of the many rewards available for a small monthly contribution.


Episode 14: Riane Eisler

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RIANE EISLER, JD is President of the Center for Partnership Studies and internationally known as a systems scientist, attorney working for the human rights of women and children, and author of groundbreaking books such as The Chalice and the Blade, Tomorrow’s Children, and The Real Wealth of Nations: Creating a Caring Economics. Dr. Eisler has received many honors, including honorary PhDs and peace and human rights awards. She lectures worldwide, with venues including the United Nations General Assembly and Universities.

Episode 13: Nel Noddings

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Nel Noddings worked in many areas of the education system. She spent seventeen years as an elementary and high school mathematics teacher and school administrator, before earning her PhD and beginning work as an academic in the fields of philosophy of education, theory of education and ethics, specifically moral education and ethics of care. She was the Jacks Professor of Child Education at Stanford University from 1992 until 1998., and was the associate dean or acting dean of the School of Education for four years. After leaving Stanford University, she held positions at Columbia University and Colgate University. She is past president of the Philosophy of Education Society and the John Dewey Society. In 2002-2003 she held the John W. Porter Chair in Urban Education at Eastern Michigan University. She has been Lee L. Jacks Professor of Education, Emerita, at Stanford University since she retired in 1998.

She’s written way too much to chronicle in these show notes. Here are some links to get started on the brilliant educational philosophy of Nel Noddings.


In this podcast:

  • Holistic ways to teach math
  • Ethics of Care in Education
  • Ending polarization through Education

Episode 12: David Marshak


David Marshak is the founding President of the SelfDesign Graduate Institute, a low-residency and online graduate school engaging learners in North and South America, Europe, Asia, and New Zealand in a learning community of care (selfdesigninstitute.org). David is the author of Evolutionary Parenting (evolutionaryparenting.org) and The Common Vision: Parenting and Educating for Wholeness. These books describe the evolutionary insights of Sri Aurobindo, Rudolf Steiner, and Hazrat Inayat Khan in regard to the unfoldment of children and teens from birth to age twenty-one. According to these three teachers, the future of our species depends on our capacity to parent and educate our young in ways that promote the evolution of consciousness and nurture the unfoldment of each individual's potential. 

In this podcast:

  • A comprehensive view of spirituality in Holistic Education, past and present
  • The value of self-directed learning
  • Administering a Holistic Education Graduate Institute

Episode 11: Ron Miller

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Ron Miller has been an educational scholar and activist, teacher, publisher and bookseller, community leader and philanthropist. Originally trained as a Montessori educator, he received a Ph.D. from Boston University in American Studies, focusing on the cultural and historical foundations of education. His research led to several books, including What Are Schools For? Holistic Education in American Culture (1992), Free Schools, Free People: Education and Democracy After the 1960s (2002), and essay collections including Caring for New Life (2000), Creating Learning Communities (2000), and The Self-Organizing Revolution (2008), among others.

Click here for a PDF transcript of the podcast.

Ron founded the journal Holistic Education Review in 1988 and helped organize conferences to build a movement for holistic education. He later published the magazine Paths of Learning, and edited Education Revolution for the Alternative Education Resource Organization. Ron was on the education program faculty at Goddard College, and has also taught at Champlain College. He helped establish the Bellwether School near Burlington, Vermont. Since 2014 he has run a lifelong learning program in Woodstock, Vermont, where he teaches American history and other topics.

In this podcast:

  • Igniting the resurgence in Holistic Education
  • The wisdom at the heart of Holistic Education
  • The importance of the history of Holistic Education in America


Episode 10: Josette Luvmour

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As a developmental consultant, educator, author, and public speaker, Josette specializes in the fields of human development, adult transformational learning, sustainable family relationships, and how adult and child grow together. She enjoys teaching educators at SelfDesign Graduate Institute.

In this Podcast:

  • How adult and child grow together
  • How Parents and educators access wisdom in relationship with children
  • The importance of knowing holistic child development and how you benefit
  • Interconnectedness of all life

Click here for a transcript of the podcast

Over the years, Josette has delighted in sharing her expertise, knowledge, and understanding with adults, family groups, and professionals seeking to deepen self-awareness, enliven optimal well-being, and develop access to innate wisdom. She is principal producer of the popular podcast series, Meetings with Remarkable Educators.

Josette has authored five eBooks and six print books, including Grow Together, Parenting as a Path to Well-being, Wisdom, and Joy, as well as articles that focus on relationships with children.Grow Together has earned the Mom’s Choice Award and is a finalist for the Foreward Indies Book of the Yearaward.

Together with her husband and collaborator, Ba Luvmour, Josette co-created and developed Natural Learning Relationships, a whole-child understanding of child development that supports optimal well-being in children and families. They have studied and explored consciousness since they met in 1979 and have been using Natural Learning Relationships with children, families, educators; in programs; and with schools since the 1980s. They have been instrumental in reinstituting Rites of Passage in contemporary culture.

Josette and Ba are advisors to public and private schools as well as authors specializing in whole-child development, education, and family dynamics. They live, work, and play together in Portland, Oregon and close to their children and grandchildren.

Episode 9: Sam Crowell

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Sam Crowell is professor emeritus at California State University, San Bernardino. He is the founder of the Masters Program in Holistic and Integrative Education and is also a founding member of the Network in Spirituality and Education. Currently, he serves as a doctoral faculty member at Cal State and is an affiliate faculty of the UNESCO Chair for Education for Sustainable Development with the Earth Charter at the UN chartered University for Peace in Costa Rica. Sam is also a faculty of Self-Design Graduate Institute and an invited adjunct professor at St. Michaels College in Vermont.   

In this podcast:

  • How to create value spaces in an education setting that call forth relationship and sustainability
  • The importance of experiential pedagogy that call for students to embody their own deep self
  • Using ritual to create educational community aware of sustainability and spirituality 
  • Teaching at Peace University in Costa Rica as part of the UN Earth Charter

Click Here for a Transcript.

Sam's personal vision is to live a life of love and service. Through his presentations, teaching, writing, and creative projects he aims to facilitate experiences that help others:

  • Integrate holistic and open systems perspectives of science, learning, and sustainable culture in their lives and organizations;
  • Cultivate practices and perspectives that nourish the inner life and awaken one's personal vision and dreams grounded in loving service;
  • Experience spiritual transformation and engagement in the creative arts, nature, and community. 

Dr. Crowell writes in the field of education, social change, and personal development where he explores the implications of a trans-modernist, holistic worldview. His books include

  • "Emergent Teaching: A Path of Creativity, Significance, and Transformation" with Rowman and Littlefield, 2013.
  • "The Re-Enchantment of Learning" with Corwin Press, 1997, 2001.
  • "Mindshifts" with Chicago Review Press, 1995, 1999, 2002.
  • "Educating Toward a New Cultural Mythology: an Analysis of Three Scientific Metaphors" unpublished.
  • “A Global Ethic for an Interconnected World: Toward a Sustainable Future and the Well-Being of All” in progress.

Sam is part of the Fulbright Specialist Program and is the recipient of both the Outstanding Teaching Award and the Outstanding Professional Accomplishments Award.



International Handbook on Holistic Education. Editor, Under contract with Routledge Publishing. Due date 2018.

Lily’s World: A Planetary Vision for a Sustainable Future, In Progress. December, 2018.


Earth Charter Pedagogy: Integrating Peace Education and ESD, Book 1 in an series on Earth Charter Pedagogy, ReEnchantment Press, Kindle e-book. March, 2017.



 “Emergent Teaching and ESD,” in Education for Sustainable Development edited by Carla Sabbatini and Damasia Ezcurra. Published by Aique, Buenos Aires, Argentina, due out 2018.

“Becoming One - - Together: The Visible and Non-Visible Nature of Collaboration in Education in International Conversations of Teacher Educators: Collaborations in Education, edited by Mary Jane Harkins, Zhanna Barchuk, and Rupert Collister, 2017.


“The Implications of ESD and the Earth Charter for Teacher Education,” Invited Presentation, University deans and department chairs, Buenos Aires, Argentina, October, 2017.

“Shaping the Future: Educating Through ESD,” Invited Workshop, District Administration, Buenos Aires City  School District, Buenos Aires, Argentina, October, 2017.

“Emergent Teaching : Discovering the Algo Mas,” Invited Presentation, San Andres University, Buenos Aires, Argentina, October, 2017.

“Integrating the Earth Charter into ESD Curriculum,” Invited Workshop, Professional developers, Esucelas Verdes Program, Buenos Aires School District, Buenos Aires, Argentina, October, 2017.

*”Earth Charter Forum,” Round Table discussion, International Conference on Holistic Education, University of Southern Oregon, September, 2017.

“Creating Spaces for Transformation,” (with David Reid-Marr) International Conference on Holistic Education, University of Southern Oregon, September, 2017.

“Mindfulness for Educators,” Principal Facilitator, Mindfulness Institute at St. Michael’s College, Colchester, Vermont, July, 2017,

“Using Emergent Teaching for Teacher Development,” Invited Workshop, at the NIVOZ Institute near Utrecht, Netherlands, May, 2017.

*“Earth Charter Notes on Social Transformation” Invited Presentation at an Earth charter event in Amsterdam, Netherlands, May 2017.

“The Theory and Practice of Emergent Teaching: Applications for the Classroom,” Invited Workshop, at the NIVOZ Institute near Utrecht, Netherlands, May, 2017.

“Transformative Learning from an ‘Emergent’ Perspective,” Invited Public Presentation, Utrecht, Netherlands, May, 2017.

*“Introduction to the Earth Charter,” Invited Public Presentation to Indivisible Idyllwild, Feb. 2017.

“ Introduction to the Earth Charter,” Invited Webinar, SDGI faculty, Spring, 2017.


Fulbright Specialist Award – “Ethics and Values for a Sustainable Future: Transformative Learning and the Earth Charter,” A week-long intensive course for the Earth Charter Center for ESD at the University for Peace, Costa Rica, July, 2017.

Online course – “Transformative Learning and ESD: A Holistic Pedagogy Grounded in the Neurosciences,” The Earth Charter Center, University for Peace, Costa Rica, Spring, 2017.

Doctoral Course, “Instructional Leadership and Change,” California State University, San Bernardino, Fall, 2017.


Invited Advisory Board Member, Teachers College, Columbia University “Collaborative for Spiritual Development: Educating For A Democratic and Ecological Society,” a funded research project and national initiative.


Participated in an Duo-Ethnography with Dr. Rupert Collister on “A Holistic Approach to Teacher Training” to be published 2018.

Episode 8: Yoshi Nakagawa

This week, Ba speaks with Dr. Yoshiharu Nakagawa, the founder and guiding light of The Asia-Pacific Network of Holistic Education. Yoshi has the amazing ability to speak of contemplative education in a way that allows everyone to not only understand what it is but to use it with children in all educational settings. Find this episode on iTunesGoogle Play or Stitcher, and subscribe to get future episodes automatically. Read the full transcript of Episode 8 here.


Yoshiharu Nakagawa, PhD., is a professor of education at Doshisha University, in Kyoto, Japan. His current interests include holistic education, spirituality, transpersonal psychology, Eastern philosophy, Indian philosophy, and contemplation. He teaches holistic education and contemplative education at his school, and is active in the Japanese Society for Holistic Education & Care, and the Japanese Association of Transpersonal Psychology & Psychiatry. He is also one of the founding members of the Asia-Pacific Network of Holistic Education. 

He is the author of Education for Awakening: An Eastern Approach to Holistic Education (2000) and the co-editor of Nurturing Our Wholeness: Perspectives on Spirituality in Education (2002), in addition to contributing articles  to many journals and anthologies.

His translator:

Sachiko Gomi, PhD. Is Assistant professor of Social Work at Western New Mexico University. Sachiko practices a holistic approach to social work.

In this Podcast:

  • The importance of Contemplative Practice for educators and students
  • The spread of Holistic Education in the Asian Pacific Rim
  • Education in Japan and the challenges for Holistic Education
  • Bonus: Holistic practices in a New Mexican social service clinic

Click here for a transcript of the podcast.

Episode 7: Four Arrows

This week, Ba sits down with Four Arrows, aka Don Trent Jacobs Ph.D., Ed.D., a prolific author and educator with doctorates in Health Psychology and in Curriculum and Instruction.  Find this episode on iTunes and subscribe to get future episodes automatically! Read the full transcript of Episode 7 here.

This episode's discussion touches upon the wisdom of place and belongingness, the structures of power we struggle against in education, and the role of non-ordinary experiences and Rites of Passage in deepening appreciation of one’s self and community.

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Four Arrows is Doctoral Faculty at the School of Leadership Studies, Fielding Graduate University. He is author of 21 books as well as numerous articles and invited book chapters. His most recent publications include:

  • Point of Departure: Returning to Our Authentic Worldview for Education and Survival (2016)
  • Teaching Truly: A Curriculum to Indigenize Mainstream (2013)
  • Differing Worldviews in Higher Education: Two Disagreeing Scholars Argue Cooperatively about Justice Education (2011)
  • Critical Neurophilosophy and Indigenous Wisdom (2010)

Four Arrows is affiliated with the American Indian Congress, the National Indian Education Association, and the Alternative Education Resource Organization. His commitment to sustainability, social justice, and the contrast between Indigenous and Western ways of knowing exemplifies the brilliance and bravery this series of interviews exists to celebrate. Indigenous education is one of the most essential efforts being made today with the potential to challenge the dominant approaches, and holistic education would be sorely incomplete without it.

Episode 6: Tobin Hart

In our 6th episode, Tobin Hart and host Ba Luvmour explore the overlap of psychology and education, tracing the productive outlines of awareness and social-emotional learning. Find this episode on iTunes and subscribe to receive future episodes! Read the full transcript of Episode 5 here. 


Tobin Hart, Ph.D. serves as Professor of Psychology at the University of West Georgia.  He is co-founder of the ChildSpirit Institute, a nonprofit educational and research hub exploring and nurturing the spirituality of children and adults.  His work explores human consciousness especially at the nexus of psychology, spirituality, and education. His book, The Secret Spiritual World of Children has helped to validate and highlight the innate spiritual life of young people. Two books explicitly on Holistic Education are The Integrative Mind: Transformative Education for a World on Fire and From Information to Transformation: Education for the Evolution of Consciousness.

Episode 5: Philip Snow Gang

Philip Snow Gang shares some of the golden threads from his lifelong journey as a teacher and philosopher. Find this episode on iTunes and subscribe to receive future episodes! Read the full transcript of Episode 5 here.


Phil Gang   started as an engineer working for big corporations. Wanting something for his own children, he turned to Montessori and found his calling. Phil's work focuses on an educational approach and pedagogy that allows children to self-reflect, to wonder, and to appreciate the cosmos through nature. Phil has worked in holistic education for over 45 years, founding institutions ranging from Montessori schools to graduate programs.
We are so excited to share his interview with you.


Spirituality and Holistic Education

We believe spirituality is integral to Holistic Education. For many, however, spirituality is either consigned to religion or ignored as irrelevant to education. The question naturally arises: Is it possible to include a secular, non-sectarian spirituality in education? And, as spirituality resists exact definition, how can we approach it and bring it into education?

Guests of Meetings with Remarkable Educators tackle these questions directly. Here is a brief sampling of insights that emerged during recording.

Tobin Hart, professor of psychology at West Georgia University, focuses on the challenges of bringing spirituality to education. His interview is a treasure chest of understanding. A brief excerpt:


It is so tricky, isn’t it [to bring spirituality and education together]. I mean, in a largely secular world to be able to talk about that. I think the thing though that is really common, and that folks can pretty easily get is that we have both moments, and feelings, and also values that are deeply meaningful…. And particularly when there's a spirituality that's really about things like authenticity, and individuality, and creative expression, and then there's a part of a spirituality that's also about interconnection, and receiving, and surrender and that kind of thing.

Tobin goes on to talk about “embodied spirituality,” and how that can be actualized in classrooms for all ages.

Josette and I have had the honor to facilitate Rites of Passage for children, adults, and whole families. We have always wished that they become incorporated in schools. Thankfully, Rachel Kessler led the way with the Mysteries program for high school students in New York City. Rachel has passed away, so you can imagine our delight in finding Shauna Sorce and her work with middle school children and Rites of Passage. She sees this a way to bring spirituality to education. In the interview, she specifies why she does it:

I'm doing it because I didn't have a Rite of Passage as a teenager. I had this deep, heartfelt longing for a mentor or a guide…somebody that I could trust, and put my faith in, and believe in and go to 100%. And I didn't have that… I longed for some kind of an initiation…and a wise elder to guide me. And for lack of having that soul in me nurtured through school, or through home, I sought it out on my own, and it wasn't always in the safest or positive, nurturing ways.

Marni Binder, professor and educator of young children, spent 23 years teaching before she “realized something was missing.” Although she was already profoundly active in social justice, loved by her students, and secure in her profession, she nevertheless experienced an extraordinary transformation. Here’s a brief anecdote from her interview describing a moment of realization:

I remember being in a meeting with my primary teachers and our Ministry of Education in Ontario in Canada stated that we have to teach the whole child. I thought, "Wait a minute." When I asked people if they could tell me, what they thought that meant? Really what they were talking about was integrating. They were talking about some of the domains, but the spirit of the child was missing. And so that to me, that piece of identity and soul, and who that child is, which is so wrapped up in the spirituality of that child, that was the missing piece.

She continues on to describe how she changed her practice based on this insight.

I could go on and on. There’s Jack Miller bringing meditative practices to teachers in training in a way that has influenced literally thousands of educators. And Paul Freedman speaking of spirituality as naturally emerging in children when the school creates the proper nurturing environment. In short, every interview contains insights, practical suggestions, real life stories, and appreciation for integrating spirituality and education.

We look forward to sharing these with you, and for your feedback on these ideas. Meetings with Remarkable Educators is about connection and community, which is vital to our inquiry and appreciation of spirituality in education. We wish you our very best.

- Ba Luvmour

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